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Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
TBH calling things trendy seems to be the biggest trend around here
Post by
Sagramor
I'd much rather talk to an honest, personal thought belief racist than a fake tolerant. At least the first one has integrity.
Post by
Sagramor
TBH calling things trendy seems to be the biggest trend around here
I feel !@#$%slapped.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Sagramor
I'd much rather talk to an honest, personal thought belief racist than a fake tolerant. At least the first one has integrity.
And if he acts on his internal racism? You'll just be glad he has intergrity?
No, I'll use my integrity and reason (which is what I call my baseball bat) to stop him, but I will still look on him with more favor than the weak-spirited individual who didn't honestly believe in the aforementioned actions but allowed, or even encouraged them to unfold.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gone
The only reason that we have formed laws and a more civilized society than we did thousands of years ago. Sag, do you think if you were born in another time, in some Viking clan, then you would have the same moral sensibilities that you have now? A large part of the morality and and self sustained thought you have been referring to, you can thank societal trends for.
Post by
Sagramor
The only reason that we have formed laws and a more civilized society than we did thousands of years ago.
Teleology like that makes no sense, there is no discernible way to define "civilized" as superior or the final step. Now, as to the other things you said,
Sag, do you think if you were born in another time, in some Viking clan, then you would have the same moral sensibilities that you have now? A large part of the morality and and self sustained thought you have been referring to, you can thank societal trends for.
Well, of course. No one is
invictus
- the master of his own fate and the captain of his own soul. And I assume the societal trends you speak of are the ones that started in Europe and we usually refer to, in English, as the Enlightenment. Yes, but the core essence of those exact trends, at least in what I consider to be the most noteworthy branches of it, is that we are enlightened because, for the first time in human History, we are aware of ourselves - in a way that a fish is not aware of the water. And as such, it is our job to look upon everything with criticism - for that is where awareness comes from (
Cogito, ergo sum
), and what allows us to be more than just the sheepish byproducts of the world.
My point is, I understand that outside and inside forces beyond my conscious control define who I am and what I do, but that is no reason not to try and criticize them, to better and better understand ourselves and the world.
Post by
Gone
Teleology like that makes no sense, there is no discernible way to define "civilized" as superior or the final step. Now, as to the other things you said,
I said "more civilized" in comparison to our ancient ancestors. As in having a higher degree of civility, as a society. I never said it was complete, or any kind of final step.
invictus Cogito, ergo sum
You're trying too hard.
Well, of course. No one is invictus - the master of his own fate and the captain of his own soul. And I assume the societal trends you speak of are the ones that started in Europe and we usually refer to, in English, as the Enlightenment. Yes, but the core essence of those exact trends, at least in what I consider to be the most noteworthy branches of it, is that we are enlightened because, for the first time in human History, we are aware of ourselves - in a way that a fish is not aware of the water. And as such, it is our job to look upon everything with criticism - for that is where awareness comes from (Cogito, ergo sum), and what allows us to be more than just the sheepish byproducts of the world.
My point is, I understand that outside and inside forces beyond my conscious control define who I am and what I do, but that is no reason not to try and criticize them, to better and better understand ourselves and the world.
All of this aside, you contradict your earlier posts. You admit that nobody is without societal, outside influence, yet earlier you were saying that somebody who makes their own opinions without following trends somehow has more integrity than those who do something because it's "trendy".
There is no such thing as an opinion formed outside the influence of societal trends. And a trend like being sensitive about racism is hardly a step in the wrong direction, so I fail to see what your issue with it is.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
And also, how does mytie know these people are all being "trendy", how does he know they would be full blown racists if they went back in time? Sounds like harsh judgement.
Because the same idiots standing up for homosexual rights now were the ones bullying homosexuals back in high school. Whichever way the wind blows.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gone
And also, how does mytie know these people are all being "trendy", how does he know they would be full blown racists if they went back in time? Sounds like harsh judgement.
Because the same idiots standing up for homosexual rights now were the ones bullying homosexuals back in high school. Whichever way the wind blows.
I shudder to think what society would be like if we were all the same way we were in highschool. I was the creepy goth kid that all the teachers kept having talks with after Columbine happened. I used to also be extremely xenophobic against Muslims. I grew up. I'm not anti Muslim, I don't dress in all black and read creepy books about death (not bad mouthing anybody who does), and I can actually maintain conversations with people now.
The fact that somebody can stand up for homosexuals after bullying them in high school just means that the person in question stopped being a moron, not that they're following some trend.
Post by
MyTie
I'm not saying that personal growth is not possible, but I guess this is the only generation it happened to, and in the last ten years, because for countless generations before us, homosexuality has been bullied. So, either this was the only generation that grew up, or it is a trend. Take your pick.
Post by
Gone
And for countless generations before the 1960s blacks were bullied, that doesn't make the civil rights movement a trend.
Post by
MyTie
And for countless generations before the 1960s blacks were bullied, that doesn't make the civil rights movement a trend.
For a lot of people, it was. There were some leaders, there were some participators, and the rest was crowd mentality. You cannot honestly think that suddenly a nation spontaneously grew up. There are social influences there, and social influences exert great amounts of power on people. What I am saying, is that I despise people who do the right thing only because of the social influences. It's dishonest and based on THEMSELVES, not doing the right thing. And what happens when a negative social influence comes along?
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
I don't doubt some people are following a "trend" but I do not think it's the majority.
You have more faith in the individuals leadership than I do. I find most of the crowd is simply following the crowd.
Again, if you do a good thing for a selfish reason, I'm happy with that. As long as you do the right thing, I don't care about why you do it. If you're an @#$%^&* in your own mind, so be it, but don't act on it, and we'll be fine.
I'd much rather people were immovably tied to doing the right thing, and determined what morality was independent of what was popular. Way too often, the popular thing becomes something horrendous, even genocidal at times, and the crowds are more than happy to follow. That is dangerous.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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