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Abortion Debate
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Post by
Monday
Whoa, guys, let's keep this civil, shall we?
Post by
Gone
You are being intentionally obtuse.I'm being intentionally unintelligent? Don't use big words if you don't know the meaning.
Whoa, guys, let's keep this civil, shall we?
You're right, I deleted it. I'm done in this thread.
Post by
Ksero
2)Yep, once you are a person there is no going back, dont see how this relates to what i said at all
Why? I'm curious as to your thought process here.
Edit: That has nothing to do with convenience, it has everything to do with the physiological state of a fetus at 8 weeks.
So what of extremely early born babies, then, as it was originally referring to? They require specialized equipment to survive and are certainly not in the physical shape to be in the world in their own right.
My point was, without advanced medical technology they die almost instantly. i dont know what else you are looking for me to say /shrug.
about once you are a person you cant go back to not being a person, I didnt mean anything more than i said. It's just logical that once you are a person, you are a person until you die.
Post by
Ksero
You are being intentionally obtuse.I'm being intentionally unintelligent? Don't use big words if you don't know the meaning.
Whoa, guys, let's keep this civil, shall we?
You're right, I deleted it. I'm done in this thread.
They meant obtuse, as in abrasive, as in trying to cause issues.
Post by
Monday
about once you are a person you cant go back to not being a person, I didnt mean anything more than i said. It's just logical that once you are a person, you are a person until you die.
Okay, I'm going to take this into incredibly absurd proportions here, but I'm curious: if someone were to become incredibly mutated (i.e. to the point of being a monster), would they still be human?
And I realize that it's a ridiculous argument and isn't related to the main topic at all. I just want to see what you think.
My point was, without advanced medical technology they die almost instantly. i dont know what else you are looking for me to say /shrug.
Again, though, newborn babies are the same. Are they "people" though?
They meant obtuse, as in abrasive, as in trying to cause issues.
ob·tuse
/əbˈt(y)o͞os/
Adjective
Annoyingly insensitive or slow to understand.
Difficult to understand.
Post by
Ksero
about once you are a person you cant go back to not being a person, I didnt mean anything more than i said. It's just logical that once you are a person, you are a person until you die.
Okay, I'm going to take this into incredibly absurd proportions here, but I'm curious: if someone were to become incredibly mutated (i.e. to the point of being a monster), would they still be human?
And I realize that it's a ridiculous argument and isn't related to the main topic at all. I just want to see what you think.
Lol, um i wasn't considering mutations into monsters when i answered the question, but no, I dont think i would consider them human anymore.
Again, though, newborn babies are the same. Are they "people" though?
I believe this is what i was trying to get at in the first place, I believe a fetus becomes a person when the umbilical cord is cut, and it starts taking in its nutrients independently, ie by mouth. at that point it is no longer an extension of the mother.
On "obtuse" maybe its just something in canada, but i have seen obtuse used this way multiple times, once by a university professor, it may not be the dictionary definition, but is definitely an accepted use.
Post by
Adamsm
I find the mutant crack a little offensive...since I am one under the definition of the word: I was born with 10 extra teeth in my skull.
Post by
Monday
Lol, um i wasn't considering mutations into monsters when i answered the question, but no, I dont think i would consider them human anymore.
Fair enough. 'twas just a silly questions.
I believe this is what i was trying to get at in the first place, I believe a fetus becomes a person when the umbilical cord is cut, and it starts taking in its nutrients independently, ie by mouth. at that point it is no longer an extension of the mother.
And I think that clears everything up. Thanks for answering my questions!
I find the mutant crack a little offensive...since I am one under the definition of the word: I was born with 10 extra teeth in my skull.
I was born without a few vital sinus bones. Your point?
Post by
MyTie
if she thinks it is a human
is absolutely 100% completely irrelevant. You can draw DNA from the fetus and scientifically prove it is a human. So, I honestly don't give a crap if the mother thinks it's some weird alien gross thing. An unborn baby can't look any worse than a penis, and she wanted that inside her... so... well... this is getting a bit heavy. Time for a nap.
semantics, i should have said LIVING human (or baby), why use reducto ad absurdum in your arguments, it gets you nowhere with people who are trying to have a healthy debate
Is the fetus an inanimate object?
Post by
Ksero
if she thinks it is a human
is absolutely 100% completely irrelevant. You can draw DNA from the fetus and scientifically prove it is a human. So, I honestly don't give a crap if the mother thinks it's some weird alien gross thing. An unborn baby can't look any worse than a penis, and she wanted that inside her... so... well... this is getting a bit heavy. Time for a nap.
semantics, i should have said LIVING human (or baby), why use reducto ad absurdum in your arguments, it gets you nowhere with people who are trying to have a healthy debate
Is the fetus an inanimate object?
You missed about 50 posts, read up
Lol, um i wasn't considering mutations into monsters when i answered the question, but no, I dont think i would consider them human anymore.
Fair enough. 'twas just a silly questions.
I believe this is what i was trying to get at in the first place, I believe a fetus becomes a person when the umbilical cord is cut, and it starts taking in its nutrients independently, ie by mouth. at that point it is no longer an extension of the mother.
And I think that clears everything up. Thanks for answering my questions!
No problem, thanks for being the only person in this thread to respond in a civil manner towards me.
Post by
Squishalot
I believe a fetus becomes a person when the umbilical cord is cut, and it starts taking in its nutrients independently, ie by mouth. at that point it is no longer an extension of the mother.
Out of curiosity, suppose there was an abortion. The fetus was expelled, the umbilical cord is cut. Suppose the fetus dies after the cord is cut. Is that therefore murder, since it is no longer a fetus, but a person?
On the opposite side - suppose a baby is born, but refuses to feed, and dies over the next 6 hours as it starves. Has a person died, or a mere fetus?
Post by
MyTie
No problem, thanks for being the only person in this thread to respond in a civil manner towards me.
Hey what about me! Oh, and I'm not gonna read through all those posts. I'll just assume someone already pointed that out, and move on.I've noticed his tendency to back out of an argument when he senses he is losing.
I noticed you like to rib me, personally. That's fine. You can keep bringing something up and badger me all you want. I've got pretty thick skin. However, if I see you doing this to someone else on this forum, I will report you, because it is against the forum rules to harrange a user, and pester them beyond the bounds of the discussion (we were in news articles thread). It's quite amusing to me, but it might drive someone else away from the forum. So, keep that in mind.
Post by
Ksero
I believe a fetus becomes a person when the umbilical cord is cut, and it starts taking in its nutrients independently, ie by mouth. at that point it is no longer an extension of the mother.
Out of curiosity, suppose there was an abortion. The fetus was expelled, the umbilical cord is cut. Suppose the fetus dies after the cord is cut. Is that therefore murder, since it is no longer a fetus, but a person?
On the opposite side - suppose a baby is born, but refuses to feed, and dies over the next 6 hours as it starves. Has a person died, or a mere fetus?
taking in nutrients by mouth was just an example i used, the point was its body is capable of functioning independently of the mother, i understand it cant collect food, or defend itself, but its body is capable of processing nutrients and is fully functional.
So in the first situation, no, its not murder, as that fetus would not have survived after the umbilical cord was cut.
In the second situation, it was not that it takes its first sip of milk/pablum, its that it is able to, if it feeds or not is moot, if its body has developed enough to be independent of its mother, then a person has died.
Post by
MrMojoRisin
No, more like parasites actually.
Quite possibly the worst thing I have come across this side of /b/ on 4chan.
It is times like this where I am both thankful for, and infuriated by the anonymity and separation that the internet provides.
Post by
MyTie
No, more like parasites actually.
Quite possibly the worst thing I have come across this side of /b/ on 4chan.
It is times like this where I am both thankful for, and infuriated by the anonymity and separation that the internet provides.
Well, this has been said a thousand times over in the debates here. Just let it go. You'll soon get used to the drumbeat of these debates. People say the same exact things over and over and over. I feel a bit like Sisyphus.
Post by
Eccentrica
I feel a bit like Sisyphus.
Well you seem to take delight in opening debate on highly divisive subjects. You've quite the thread starting history with that. That you feel you are engaged in a Sisyphean task is not surprising at all.
Post by
Sas148
Cooling off period concluded.
Further name calling will not be tolerated and suspensions will be issued. Be respectful; recognize the difference between name calling and just using the scientifically appropriate terminology (i.e: mutant).
Also, I really wish you'd all recognize that this is a debate that will not conclude, nor has it concluded in societies all around the world. New people will come into the discussion, old people will continue and/or return, and opinions/perspectives will be restated with or without others knowledge. There is no need to speak condescendingly to anyone who hasn't had the time or interest in reading 40 pages of previous postings (though I do encourage them to do so if they're truly interested in the topic).
You may resume...
Post by
134377
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
a creepy alien thing
I feel very strongly as if this is bait. It's extremely disrespectful, especially in this debate, especially to someone who's "creepy alien thing" died, and he misses it every day. Therefore, I'm not going to respond to any more of your posts that insult human beings.
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