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Does blizzard's reasoning on DPS seem flawed?
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Post by
PinktheDK
or is it just me?
I mean, Blizzard has stated that Pure DPS should do more, which sounds good in theory... until you realize that pure DPS also brings a ton of utility to the raid (excepting rogues) while some Hybrids bring almost nothing.
For example Warriors are Hybrids, yet all we really have to show for our class buff-wise is battle shout (unless you have a paladin), Mortal Strike, (Hunters have it. Mages and Priests will have a weaker version soon) sunder armor (unless a rogue uses expose) or Commanding Shout (and locks can even give an HP boost).
In contrast, Warlocks are Pure DPS, and can provide a wide array of buffs, depending on chosen pet, Healthstones, Soulstones, Summons, and still pull as much or more DPS than a comparably geared warrior at range, with DOTs ticking even when casting is not possible. And they never go OoM, so long as they have HP to tap off.
I'm not QQing, (I love the warrior class, and I am in no way calling for Warlock nerfs. They were just used to illustrate how I think about things.) just wondering if anyone else sees things this way. (Raid Utility and buffs vs DPS output, as opposed to potential Tanking/Healing vs DPS output)
Post by
Haxzor
I'm a shaman, I can pull top dps.
I also bring huge raid utility.
Nerf shamans? No
I'm just that good
TEEHEE
Post by
Slimda
I'm a Feral Druid.
I top the DPS meters.
I can tank. I can heal. I can buff. I can root. I'm awesome incarnate.
Post by
Switchshot
I play both a hybrid (Paladin) and pure dps (Rogue).
They both have ups and down for raid utility and potential for dps.
Play styles are what set them apart. Whether a warlock is easier then a warrior shouldnt really matter as long as your enjoying your part
Post by
PinktheDK
I'm a shaman, I can pull top dps.
I also bring huge raid utility.
Nerf shamans? No
I'm just that good
TEEHEEI'm a Feral Druid.
I top the DPS meters.
I can tank. I can heal. I can buff. I can root. I'm awesome incarnate.
---------->this thread
O_o
^^your head
Post by
204878
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
PinktheDK
For example Warriors are Hybrids, yet all we really have to show for our class buff-wise is battle shout (unless you have a paladin), Mortal Strike,
(Hunters have it. Mages and Priests will have a weaker version soon)
sunder armor (unless a rogue uses expose) or Commanding Shout (and locks can even give an HP boost).)
Mages and Priests are getting what? Sunder Armour? Mortal Strike? MS.
Post by
211590
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Afoxi
I'm a shaman, I can pull top dps.
I also bring huge raid utility.
Nerf shamans? No
I'm just that good
TEEHEE
Win post!
Paladins: Hybrid DPS. Most de/buffs in game.
Blessing of Kings/Might/Wisdom/Sanctuary.
Hand of Sacrifice/Salvation/Protection.
Divine Sacrifice, Divine Intervention.
Sanctified Seals, The Soon-To-Be Vindication.
Judgements of the Wise Replenishment Buff.
Protection/Retribution/Concentration/Crusader/Shadow Resistance/Fire Resistance/Frost Resistance Auras.
See all that utility?
AAAAANNND high DPS!
I'll be damned if I met a Ret Paladin who would switch those hands/blessings/auras without me having to badger them 6 times about it before they do it.
Post by
HoleofArt
I'm a shaman, I can pull top dps.
I also bring huge raid utility.
Nerf shamans? No
I'm just that good
TEEHEE
Win post!
Paladins: Hybrid DPS. Most de/buffs in game.
Blessing of Kings/Might/Wisdom/Sanctuary.
Hand of Sacrifice/Salvation/Protection.
Divine Sacrifice, Divine Intervention.
Sanctified Seals, The Soon-To-Be Vindication.
Judgements of the Wise Replenishment Buff.
Protection/Retribution/Concentration/Crusader/Shadow Resistance/Fire Resistance/Frost Resistance Auras.
See all that utility?
AAAAANNND high DPS!
I'll be damned if I met a Ret Paladin who would switch those hands/blessings/auras without me having to badger them 6 times about it before they do it.
That's because when they're ret they're either
A) a faceroller
B) "I'm a dps! I don't do nuthin else cuz I'm 1337!"
C) just plain retarded
or maybe even D) doesn't understand your language.
Yes. Rets. Nobody really likes you.
>.<
Post by
ArgentSun
Ah, I disagree with the OP. I think what you are looking at is unique buffs, and those are fairly rare to come by...
As a paladin, I could counter with something like this:
My
Blessing of Might
is needless, a warrior can just do Battle Shout.
Blessing of Wisdom
is also needless with Mana Spring totem.
Blessing of Kings
is still unique, hands down.
Blessing of Sanctuary
... 3% damage reduction, possibly raid-wide, and easily countered by a Priest.
Hand of Sacrifice
is really unhealthy, unless paired with Divine Shield.
Hand of Protection
is nifty, but how often are your DPS/Healers taking Physical damage? That's usually when a boss goes to spank them, and my Hand can't help if that's the case.
Hand of Salvation
still has its uses, but aggro is not really a problem for a decent tank all fights, unless the DPS has something like +50% damage for the entire fight.
My debuffs... +3% crit against the targeted monster, which if I am not mistaken was also given to half a dozen other classes.
Yes, paladin buffs and utility are extensive, but by far not unique or irreplaceable. Warriors are not as useless as you claim - I still refuse to pull an important boss with Commanding Shout, just as I refuse to pull if I am missing Prayer of Fortitude, or Blessing of Kings, or Blood Pact, or Gift of the Wild.
Read over,
think
, and if you still disagree with me, I'll pull exact spells and numbers for each class, so we can see what exactly each one of us brings to raids...
Post by
hymer
Rets. Nobody really likes you.
We're not here to be liked. We're here to faceroll anything and everything that gets in our way. If it doesn't work, we'll come to a forum and QQ about it.
OP:
Using Battleshout frees up a pally blessing for something else. The Rogue would rather not mess with an opponent's armour if there's a warrior tank who could do it instead. But those are just minor bits. More importantly:
With dual spec, a 'hybrid' (although I hesitate to call a Warrior one, but I guess it's ok) can fill two or more roles in a raid. This makes them more attractive to the RL than before. Thus, pure DPSers, especially us poor rogues, might need a little something to make us useful and let us into the raid.
Finally, I'm assuming that doing 'other things', at least for the Rogue, will mean spending time in combat not DPSing. Trading off some DPS for some utility can't be that bad, can it?
Post by
126877
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
133226
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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