@ONCHEhapOk let me address this hilarious tirade of yours..."Best health pool?" - Wow...just wow... Bears ALWAYS had higher health pools because guess what? They don't have absorbs (not even close to a level of a Paladin f.e.), parries, blocks and whatnot. Bears are literally punching bags. You want a bear with a health pool of a regular DK/Pala/Warr tank with no utility those classes have? Ridiculous...you have no idea what you're talking about..."Best physical defensive abilities?" - Such as? What are you talking here about? Survival Instincts which are 2 charges of 6 seconds on 2 minutes cd? Lol! Barkskin which is 20% damage reduction for 12 seconds on a 40-45 seconds cd? Rofl... Unless...you are referring to the only pro-actively available ability Guardians have which is Ironfur and which, I should remind you again, is the only active mitigation save for other passives which Bears have because guess what - they don't any of the defensive abilities other tanks have..."Best magical defensive abilities?" - Woopdeedoo! I'd still say this is a stretch since Paladins have always been the main magic damage mitigation tanks and Bears were by far the worst...Bears finally get something in this regard and it's all of a sudden the best...hilarious...but let's say you have a half a point here as Bears are indeed atm the best anti-magic tanks when at some past times they were by far the worst."Best raid utility?" - Like what? CR that DK's also have? Stampeding Roar on 1/2 minute cooldown? Because those are the only two. You have to be more specific here. But anyway it's a fallacious statement based on who knows what. Paladins are and were the best utility tanks in the game, period."Best mobility?" - Huh? Hahahahaha.... -_- You are seriously gonna claim this and keep a straight face? Bears are some of the slowest tanks in game, the mobility they have is Stampeding Roar which is on 1 minute cd if specced in talent tree. Compared to BrM, DH and even Paladin (Charger thing) and Warrior (Leaps, Charges, etc.) they are hilariously slow. Bears ARE the slowest tanks in game save perhaps DK's."Best adaptability?" - What do you mean here by "adaptability", sounds a lot like "utility". I mean you are throwing these words around without no explanation whatsoever."Best passive armor rating?" - Well duh....let me repeat it once again so you remember > no shield, no parry, no block, etc..."Best healing?" - Bears have at best average healing (I assume you are talking about self heals here) which can become really good only and only if they have the legendary boots. Without legendary boots compared to DK's, Paladins and especially DH's...Bears are below and/or at best average. I mean where do you get these ideas...must be some alternative reality..."Best damage reflection?" - Another hilarious statement. Bears can have damage reflection ONLY if specced in Brambles and even so it's hilariously low (ca. 10k-ish return per hit) and totally underwhelming on single target and somewhat good on AoE-heavy fights of which we currently have only Skorp. Another fallacious and totally uninformed claim."Best artifact spell?" - DK's and DH's have equally good spells while Guardian one is on almost double their cd when compared. Again very doubtful statement. Guardian spell is good I'll give you that, but that it's best is rather questionable statement bordering on your personal opinion."Best major defensive cooldowns?" - Already covered this. The only defensive cd's Bears have is 2 stacks of Survival Instincts which is 50% dmg reduction for 6 seconds on 2 minutes cd. And the above mentioned artifact spell. Those are the only "major defensive cooldowns" Guardians have...for your information only. Cannot even begin to compare to Paladin or Warrior."Easiest active tank gameplay?" - Says who? You? I've actually tried all of the tank specs and I can tell you there is no "easiest tank gameplay"...they are all pretty much straightforwards and you either know how to tank or you don't...and it was always like that. All these tanks currently have pretty unique gameplay and to claim one is easier than the other is a hilarious statement as every person has their preferences. You are claiming something for which you have zero proof. Anyway all in all reading these just strenghtens my previous claim. There are people like you who have absolutely no clue and who claim ludicrous things just for the sake of saying them. Again Bears currently have an advantage in NH because they have really good magic mitigation...for once...while other classes lack such. This is the ONLY reason why they are at advantage right now. Playing a Guardian Druid and a Protection Warrior or Paladin are completely different things and you cannot compare them by pointing out non-issues such as high health pools and armor rating but completely ignoring they lack any other tank mitigation other tanks have, especially "classic" tanks such as Warriors and/or Paladins.
@Joker1313 - If you truly are a mythic raider, could I possibly see your logs? I am curious how the numbers stack up. See, here's my problem with bears right now - you are right, the class fantasy is that you're a big ol' bear, you take hits to the face and keep on trucking. The idea is you get more health than anyone else because you are taking more damage than anyone else. However, proportionally, the amount of health you get over others vs. the amount of damage you take over others seems out of whack. If bears had, say, 15% more health than all other tanks, but also took 10-15% more damage then I personally wouldn't be complaining. It would be in line with your class fantasy. However, in my personal experience (and I do not have Mythic logs to back this up, only anecdotal evidence) bears of a similar ilvl to me have almost 37% more health than me if I take Devastator (the number shrinks to about 8% if I take Indomitable) while taking 10-15% LESS damage than me. That's why I have a problem with the way Guardians are tuned right now - their health is too high to justify the uptime on their active mitigation. I also suspect that you are, whether you are aware of it or not, tanking the boss for longer than your co-tank, which skews the logs. As an example, if you tank Krosus for 65% of the fight, and your co-tank tanks him for the other 35%, and you are hitting 8-10 stacks of the DoT while your co-tank can only take 3-4, then of course your logs will show you taking more damage. However, your survivability index is significantly higher, which is what's important in this conversation.Like I've said - it's not like I want Guardians to be brought down to where Prot Warriors are right now. I just think that everyone should be brought to the same level as Prot Paladins and Brewmasters - absolutely solid choices for tanking all types of content without being overtuned.EDIT: saw your links after I finished writing this. Arguably the HPS link is the most misleading - of course the BDK and Prot Warrior will have the highest HPS; BDK has a drain as their main survivability, and Warcraft Logs counts Ignore Pain as a self-heal. Additionally, if you look at number of parses, what do you see? Guardian Druid parses are almost equal to the number of parses of Prot Warriors, Brewmasters, VDHs and BDKs COMBINED. That number is the one you should be looking at when you ask "what is the best tank in the game right now?"
@TheGreyCow - I won't show you the logs so you'll have to trust me here...I do it for obvious reasons, don't want trolls spamming me...I had that in past. Anyway on our recent Krosus kill statistics are next:I tanked Krosus for 57.61% of the time while my co-tank had it for 42.39%. In that time I took 216,61m damage of which 12,3m were absorbs as I play with Brambles even on ST since it's convenient and my personal preference. In same time he got 164,06m damage of which 21,73m were absorbs and/or blocked. Overall this mean in 57.61% of the time I tanked, I got 56.9% of the tank damage and he got 43.1%. However Krosus is specific and here my Mark of Ursol comes into play and thus my relatively "high" absorb of 12,3 million.Let's take a look at Gul'dan on heroic which is a bit different fight where we also tank the boss for about same time. For the duration of the entire fight I tanked the boss for 46.88% of time...in that period I received 197,08 million damage of which 9,35 million was absorbed so in essence in that time I suffered 187,67 million damage. My friend tanked the boss 33.7% of the time and in that time he got 175,91 million damage of which 64,44 million was absorbed and/or blocked effectively making him take an actual 111,47 million damage. This means of all damage suffered between us I got 62.73% damage while he got 37.27%. This mean even tho I tanked the boss for 13% more of the time of the actual fight I suffered over 25% more damage than he did.Let's take a look at Elisande for example. For a fight where he tanked her for 55.31% of the time and I held aggro for 43.36% of the time in that same period he suffered 130,96 million of which 34,66 million was absorbed/blocked making him directly take 102,41 million damage. In that time I suffered 131,99 of which 7,28 million was absorbed making me directly taking 124,71 million damage. So even though I tanked the boss for around 12% less time I still got 24 million of direct damage more or in percentages I tanked the boss for 43% of the time and received almost 55% of all direct damage while he tanked it for 55% of the time and got 45% of all direct damage. Etc., etc.As you can see the difference is Guardians have high health pools for a reason, it is to mitigate much higher damage we receive because we lack the much higher absorbs and block/stagger type of mitigation other tanks have. It works for both magic and physical damage. Guardians are punching bags able to sustain damage, while other tanks such as Paladins and/or Warrior for example are "classic" tanks which use active mitigation like blocks, parries and damage reflection.And I knew someone will mention the number of parses as some sort of proof...it's proof of nothing but the fact Druid is actually the most played and popular class in the game by far meaning ofc since it's the most played class in the game ofc most parses will be that of Druid tanks. Druids are also 6th on the list of of all DPS parses and also 1st on all healer parses...a class which can fulfill all four roles within the game and is the most played class in general is expected to have the highest number of parses.
I can feel the Blizzard's hatred towards Shadow Priests.
The Earthbind Totem change is a tooltip fix and already in-game.
Okay.Time for Warlock griping.Cry Havoc One thing should be done for balance's sake. Focused chaos should be rebuffed in PvP talents.Artifact traits are called traits because you cannot choose something else in leiu of what's on offer.We can't choose something else if Havoc isn't a part of our rotation.Focused chaos is one of these rare situations.Now, I realize that most destro locks use the other PvP choices in that tier. Namely, Entrenched in Flame. This changes nothing for those people. But, I find Focused Chaos much more impactful and fun in Battlegrounds, which is where I spend most of my time. I can run in and literally change the game.However, I feel really strongly that selecting Focused Chaos is now a choice that says, "Okay, this is going to to completely negate this awesome artifact trait that I would normally be able to use,". Since there is no alternative to Cry Havoc that I could select to go along better with my PvP talent choices, shouldn't my PvP talent reward just a little more (100% again from 75%), as I'm essentially outright sacrificing what seems like a pretty important artifact trait?For example, if I choose Focused Chaos, it totally negates the effects of the normal Wreak Havoc talent. No big deal, I can switch to Soul Conduit in order to make that build really work. That's good balance. This is just like, "Spec into havoc or suffer".So, consider rebuffing Focused Chaos?Otherwise, it feels less like a playstyle choice, and more of an obligation to run a certain build.And that kinda sucks.
anyone know when they are going to balance pvp matchmaking so that the alliance actually stands a chance of winning? sick and tired of winning 1/100 matches, and being matched against horde teams with 4 healers whilst we get 1 or 0. i know a lot of the devs play horde but this is stupid. makes alliance players not want to pvp.
Guardian druids are out in force today I see. Shouldn't you be busy tanking every mythic boss at once without losing hp? Just be glad you're insanely overpowered for now, it won't last.
Could someone clarify if mistweaver's Fortifying Brew is pvp only in 7.2? I would LOVE it if it's pve also.
@Emsarrev I'd say Prot Warrs are even more "in force" with their whining and crying. Being the top tank and at times extremely OP you are now crying because your class actually requires some skill to master. @Nevcairiel You are right, it's on a 4 minute cd, not 2...I somehow overlooked that ridiculous statement, yet another proof the guy has no clue what he is talking bout. SI is the last resort ability and is on level with other similar abilities other classes have.
Nice Assa Rogue nerv...thx for that ...