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How do YOU Subterfuge? =P
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386383
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Post by
Neffi
Don't ever use Premed with your opener like that. It's just a waste of combo points. Use the following macro (press twice):
#showtooltip Slice and Dice
/use Premeditation
/use Slice and Dice
You want Slice and Dice up
before
you open. Without the extra energy regen, openers are much more messy. Furthermore, if without a preemptive
, you're pretty much forced to spend your first 5 combo points on Slice and Dice, which means you lose out on burst (Eviscerate) or your ramp-up time is much higher (Rupture).
As for the opener itself, always weave a Garrote in there. It's hands-down your best opener.
20% increased damage across the board
and a
4.5 second silence
is just too good to not make top priority. You should practically never open without it.
After that's covered, the rest is situational. Do you need an immediate stun? Get a Cheap Shot up. But don't make that a consistent thing. Cheap Shot DRs with Kidney Shot, so if you find yourself in the position where a full-duration KS a few seconds down the line is useful, but a CS right now is not, don't waste it.
Got that done? Throw in as many Ambushes as energy you have left over.
With the first 5 combo points, go into:
Dispatch
: Trying to burst down.
Rupture
: Up against an enemy in a situation where high immediate burst won't pay off as much as fully ramping yourself up will. For instance, a tank-specced flag carrier.
Kidney Shot
: Any situation where the control is suddenly required.
Post by
stuffeh
Premeditation doesn't trigger gcd, so you don't need to press it twice.
Post by
Neffi
Theoretically it should work on one press, but it doesn't. The check for combo points (when activating SnD) is done on the client, and the ones gained by Premed are checked (and applied) at the server. So the client doesn't know it has available combo points until Premed is cast, the server notified of the cast, and then the client subsequently notified of the added combo points. There's a small delay (equivalent to your round-trip latency) before you can cast SnD after Premed, so it must be pressed twice.
Try the macro yourself.
Edit:
pelf notified me of a quirk in /castsequence when running across certain situations. I don't remember exactly what he said, but I think he meant that /castsequence causes the client-side checks to be silently ignored. While the macro with /cast does require two presses, maybe using some weird-looking /castsequence lines can avoid that. I'll test it out later.
Post by
Neffi
That's because you weren't using a finisher. When the macro gets parsed:
/use Premeditation
/use Garrote
All that's happening is, the game tells the server to cast Premed, then immediately after (possibly within the same packet of data) tells it to cast Garrote as well. Since there are no special conditions to using either of these (except being stealthed or having enough energy), the game client sends both spell requests to the server without question. The servers gets the messages in the correct order (thanks to it using TCP instead of UDP), and all goes well.
If you're using a finisher though, it gets screwy. Macros get parsed within a single thread, which means both lines:
/cast Premeditation
/cast Slice and Dice
Get handled by the game engine immediately after one another. Because Slice and Dice itself requires combo points to use, it fails. The game sees the line:
/cast Premeditation
And sends that command off to the server to tell it that the player wants to cast it. It
then
sees the line:
/cast Slice and Dice
Since Slice and Dice has a special requirement (having Combo Points) it first checks to see if you
already
have combo points before asking the server to cast it. If you don't, it already "knows" you cannot so it doesn't bother sending a "useless" request to the server.
The game client gets a message anywhere from 100-250 milliseconds later indicating that you
now
have combo points, so when pressed the 2nd time the game correctly sends the request to cast Slice and Dice through.
This could be fixed if the developers changed the behavior of Slice and Dice on the client-side to remove the check for combo points before sending the request to the server. (They did this for many other conditions a while ago, which is why you no longer have to add a /stopcasting after non-GCD spells, or use /stopcasting macros to avoid latency in your rotation.)
I'm guessing the internal check wasn't removed because of the practicality of it. Removing that check would mean every rogue around the world would be sending the game servers several more "useless" requests per second. All those extra small packets coming through would mean more strain on the servers and network infrastructure. This might even mean upgrading high population realms that are
already
pushing the limits of the server hardware.
The only problem is the Ambush (etc) doesn't always work if the Premed is still on CD. (I don't know why is sometimes does/doesn't work).
If used within a /castsequence or a /castrandom, cooldown spells also have ill behavior. Both commands were re-engineered (I believe during BC) to prevent people from chaining many of them together to essentially get perfect rotations out of a single button (trick the client into casting spellA if not on cooldown, and spellB otherwise). The macro system specifically doesn't allow you to make such a macro with GCD-invoking spells (with some exception), so /cast{sequence,random} intentionally get "stuck" when they come across a spell which fails to cast (they'll subsequently keep attempting the same spell until it succeeds, before moving onto the next in the sequence).
This
shouldn't
happen with non-GCD spells, but it was probably a bug. Always place Premeditation on its own /cast and the macro should never hang on its cooldown. If it does, it's a bug, and you should do the necessary tests to figure out whether its your action-button addon causing it to fail.
Post by
stuffeh
Thanks for the explanation. I've never believed in opening to burst since I'm running with a healer in 2s. So I always macroed premed with ambush/garrote (mod:ctrl on one of them) followed by a SnD for the long haul.
Post by
kalastrear
Ambush x2-> stun -> faceroll on keyboard
Post by
egywow
i use
Subterfuge
!
out of combat stealthed (2GCD):
+
Slice and Dice
Opener (5GCD):
Garrote
Cheap Shot
Ambush
Tyrannical Gladiator's Badge of Conquest
+
Dispatch
Marked for Death
+
Dispatch
macro
#showtooltip Eviscerate
/use Tyrannical Gladiator's Badge of Conquest
/cast Eviscerate
#showtooltip Marked for Death
/cast Marked for Death
/cast Eviscerate
PWND!
Post by
1107124
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