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10.2.7
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10.2.6
Beta
For all who ask "what to do in 3.3?"
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Post by
Coldkil
not my work, you all should know the name
I finally have a working beta version of the simsheet with the recent 3.3 PTR changes. I will focus on mutilate since that's all I had time to play with for now. The following findings are based on the beta version of the simsheet, so take them with a grain of salt. I will add however that the findings are consistent with the results we saw with weapon swapping as the recent PTR changes in part mimick the weapon swapping effect on dps.
-2-piece bonus is worth about 290 dps in 3.2BiS
-4-piece bonus is worth about 120 dps in 3.2BiS
-Adding rupture to mutilate rotation lowers dps by over 200 dps (even talented and glyphed), envenom-only rotation seems to be the rotation of choice in 3.3.
-51/18/2 is ahead of 51/13/7 by about 100dps even with 4-piece set bonus.
-Master poisoner is still much stronger than Turn the Tables. In fact now MP is second strongest talent after HfB (approximately 4% dps per talent point).
-4+ cycle is still ahead of the 3+ cycle even with the 4-piece bonus in its current form, however, the gap is not statistically significant.
-Energy pooling to 60 before an envenom does not produce any statistically significant dps changes.
-Mongoose and Berserking have about the same dps value, with Berserking having a small not statistically significant lead.
-In terms of strength of stats, Haste has about the same value as AP and both have more value than white hit and agility. So at least at this point it seems the gemming will involve AP and haste. Items with haste procs and high haste amounts will be very valuable for mutilate. However, these conclusions can change as I add ICC gear, which according to some reports is low on hit rating.
link:
http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t64665-incoming_rogue_changes_discussion/p29/
(just scroll a little)
sorry if i gave any misleading info.
no more posts about this please.
EDIT: corrected the name :P hope nobody is angry with me
Post by
105944
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
DeathBlood
-Adding rupture to mutilate rotation lowers dps by over 200 dps (even talented and glyphed), envenom-only rotation seems to be the rotation of choice in 3.3.
Yeah, Rupture only accounts for about 7-8% of my total DPS according to Recount. I always wondered why people preached about getting Blood Spatter and even using a Major Glyph for Rupture. Just doesn't seem worth it, the damage is so small. I'll still use Rupture once a minute to refresh Hunger for Blood, but that's all. Envenom-only is the way to go.
Post by
105944
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
DeathBlood
-51/18/2 is ahead of 51/13/7 by about 100dps even with 4-piece set bonus.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#f0ec0egoVboIuVo0xV0xcZ0b:ITpmzV
^ That'll probably be my talent build then in 3.3 the 51/18/2. Note that I took the 2 points out of Blood Spatter (Since Rupture will be used less often, only to refresh HfB) and put them in Fleet Footed. An extra 15% movespeed will help for run-in run-out boss fights, especially since melee dps is so important.
Are 3 points in Ruthlessness really needed? Most damage comes from Melee auto-attacks and poisons. With an extra combo point, that won't equate to more Energy more, since we're passing on Relentless Strikes. I'm considering still changing my build to have 1/3 points in Ruthlessness and 2/2 Blood Spatter.
With a 3rd free Glyph, I picked Tricks of the Trade. Would help increase dps of another target, or help the tank gain threat. I could also see Fan of Knives being used in there for trash mobs, but it wouldn't help on boss fights. The minor glyphs I chose are mostly irrelevant, it's up to personal preference.
Besides the combo point question among Fleet Footed, Ruthlessness, and Bloodspatter, and the 3rd Glyph choice, that should be the cookie-cutter build for Patch 3.3.
Post by
DeathBlood
This information is not new, and for a great majority of players rupture is still a dps increase. Those preachers you were hearing were probably correct, its only recently that rupture has been removed from rotations, and its due to gearing in 3.2 and 3.3, not due to misconceptions about ruptures importance
Ah, I just hit level 80 on my Rogue a month ago, Oct. 30th to be exact, and I'm still learning. I didn't have a context of "only recently" since patch 3.2 is all I've raided in. It's just Rupture has been seen as crucial for so long, but from what I've seen from my personal experience (patch 3.2), it wasn't MUCH of an increase, only a slight one at best.
Post by
168847
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Liquoid
BUT WUT IF ME COMBAT ROGGGGG
Post by
Coldkil
1000 GET!
for combat rogues all remains the same, only numbers change.
Post by
DoomEU
What I don't understand here is why haste is now better.
Surely if lighning reflexes and relentless strikes are the same in 3.2 and 3.3 then 51/18/2 will be better in 3.2 also?
Unless something has changed to the way haste is calcualated and/or applied I can't see why this is an effect of 3.3.
Any ideas?
edit: nevermind I was being an idiot.
To answer my own question, more haste = more DP procs = more IP procs as of 3.3. In 3.2 haste had no effect on poison procs (other than getting the full DP stack up faster)
Post by
261871
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Coldkil
1000 GET!
for combat rogues all remains the same, only numbers change.
20/51/0
Sorry too fail thousandth post.
Sign of things to come?
:D
not a fail. now the best spec when you reach a good amount of gear is 18/51/2...it seems that RS is losing in terms of dps more and more as gear becomes more powerful.
the 20/51/0 is only the right consequence of what is going on now for combat. that's why i said "only numbers change".
anyway i feel a nerf coming putting improved poisons back to the current state (10% more chance to DP to proc instead of 20%).
@DoomEU: haste in fact
raises
the IP chance to proc (don't know how it works in detail though), but the dps it provides now is much inferior than AP does. next patch haste and AP seem on par (for mutilare sure, dunno for combat since ArP remains good).
Post by
Doring
What I don't understand here is why haste is now better.
Surely if lighning reflexes and relentless strikes are the same in 3.2 and 3.3 then 51/18/2 will be better in 3.2 also?
Unless something has changed to the way haste is calcualated and/or applied I can't see why this is an effect of 3.3.
Any ideas?
edit: nevermind I was being an idiot.
To answer my own question, more haste = more DP procs = more IP procs as of 3.3. In 3.2 haste had no effect on poison procs (other than getting the full DP stack up faster)
However, I did some spreadsheet work on my rogue, who is at the cusp of having enough gear to go ruptureless and sure enough, IF I have found the way to add in the additional 10% haste properly, with equal gear, the (51/18/2) spec puts out a substantial amount more theoretical DPS than the rupture spec. So, it is better, at high gear levels NOW, as of right this minute with poisons and such just as they are now, than a rupture cycle. Enough so that I am likely going to respec after many months of the same old thing. I have the exact numbers in another post I made on it
here.
Doring
Post by
KidB
manvanas
I think this is the most hilarious misspelling of someone's name.
Err, carry on.
Post by
PessimiStick
Are 3 points in Ruthlessness really needed? Most damage comes from Melee auto-attacks and poisons. With an extra combo point, that won't equate to more Energy more, since we're passing on Relentless Strikes. I'm considering still changing my build to have 1/3 points in Ruthlessness and 2/2 Blood Spatter.
So despite the fact that GLYPHED/SPECCED Rupture is a DPS loss, you want to take 2/2 Spatter instead of 3/3 Ruthlessness?
Did you fall on your head in the shower this morning?
Post by
176977
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
PessimiStick
What if he did? You'd feel really bad then.... well ok maybe not.
What I'm waiting for is 51/18/2 to actually show a DPS upgrade over the traditional 51/13/7. Both spreadsheets show it at a DPS loss for me, and a somewhat significant one. I don't have a ton of haste (random drops are random) and I can give up 40 crit for 40 haste (which is a small increase) however 51/18/2 is still a loss.With my live gear regemmed for AP/Haste, Mavanas' 3.3 sheet shows the LR build ~220 DPS higher than the standard for me.
(12,550 vs 12,330)
Post by
176977
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
PessimiStick
The DPS Strat tab is the same as it's been for quite a while, minus the change to the preset buttons.
Obviously there's something else going on since my 3.2 version certainly wasn't showing me at 12.5k DPS. =p
Post by
176977
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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